- This topic has 26 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 7 months ago by
Doug Gerrard.
Doug Gerrard.-
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SCOTT EVANS
Not to be a spoilsport myself, and I want to emphasize that my comments in no way represent NCR here… BUT, I don’t feel that small children have NO place anywhere that EX propellant and L3 rockets are flying. I’ve personally witnessed a 50# bird come in on the NCR flight line within 15 feet of a kid who was standing there looking dumb while people were yelling heads up. Of course there were several adults doing the exact same thing. Kids too small to move quickly or understand the danger, adults in wheelchairs or on crutches, the blind or otherwise disabled, all have no place at a rocket launch where significant dangers exist. BALLS qualifies in spades. I’d also include stoner-hippies, zen-masters, and the uninvolved general public in that group.
Warren
Well after I saw a few rockets come in balistic, I decided it to be the most dangerous thing about the sport. In December, mine did the balistic thing, and nun of us ever saw it. Any body out there was nun of the above, we would not have had a chance if it came in at the wrong place. I guess Im a bad parent, as I will still put my kids on an Air Plane, put them into aCar (with seat belts of coarse) and even ride in Cessna 172 with me. And guess what even let them still come to rocket launches. There are alot of things that are dangerous in life,but the biggest one is walking out the front door!
Scott e
ps doesnt mean I endorse stupidity!! 🙂Conway Stevens
Folks,
Even though I haven’t been to BALLS I can understand and respect what they are saying. BALLS is a lot different then any others launch though. How many launches have any or most of the people attended where they fly all metal construction . Minimum diameter. Motor sizes where Q has become the average and rockets that weigh a few hundred lbs…. Only at BALLS. And sometimes all the above are just one rocket. So I would agree with what they are asking and I would not be offended. Besides the rocketry issues there are also natural ones there as well. It is a desert. Hot. Blowing sand storms. Land that looks dry but is a quicksand pit waiting to happen and more…
Now with that said. I would take my Daughter of almost 16 years of age to BALLS. Not only do I feel she is old enough, and smart enough, but she has been around rocketry since the days when JW was President at PHITS, James nor myself were L2 yet, and Art was still flying Estes. 😉 and for those of you that don’t know… thats along time… Shes been around a lot and seen quite a bit of crazy stuff happen. Heck she herself has mixed motors from beginning to end with minimal help from me. As well as helped James and myself make O motors and N motors and more.. So there are circumstances that can make differences…
Anyhow Warren, I hear what your saying and understand your concern, but I also see what Doug is saying as well (and read it and was a bit caught off and offended you might be discriminating) and really you talked about what happened at NCR events and those involved with no mention of BALLS till the end so I can see how one might see it different then you possibly meant. With that said, It is not our place to discriminate in any way who can attend what where. They can be informed and made aware the risks they take are of their own will. Following TRA rules with Research is fine. But again if im a TRA L2 flyer thats in a wheelchair and I show up I still have every right to be there as I meet the criteria.
As far as my reasons for running for prefect seeings how you mention… Well lets just say Not just because Joe has to much on his even though he does and my hats off to the man. But People in this club or any club should find it upon them selfs to provide for the future of their club and hobby by serving it as those before them donated of their service and time to you. I wish to give back to all those that have payed forward for me and others to enjoy and learn of the hobby by giving my time and service to its members as a TAP and a Prefect. But those are my reasons. As well as I want to see Joe go L3 and fly some freaking rockets!!! along with other Exec members…
BTW Warren, you better hope this comment doesn’t get amended into the rules…..:roll: They may not let you fly rockets anymore…. 😆
WMusselman wrote:
“I’d also include stoner-hippies”
Just Kiddin…
Thanks
Conway
Jeffrey Joe Hinton
This mentally challenged flyer has yet to make it to BALLS but would take my son (16) without pause because he’s really only interested in the flights that don’t survive as planned. Waverly loves the thrill of failures. Like they say, the nut doesn’t fall far from the tree.
Conway Stevens
This mentally challenged flyer………….. .
Hmm.. nice to know officially im not the only one 😯
Kevin Osler
Wow. ok Metal rockets + Huge engines = Power and pounds. I understand a bit more now. Never attended anything like BALLS and didn’t realize the differenece in danger even after reading their website. I agree with the comments above and the theory behind their decisions. Maybe spelling out an age limit might be a helpful on their website and specific reasons other than irresponsible parenting. A simple explaining like someone made above about kids getting distracted and not paying attention to “Heads Up” calls would suffice. I saw a rocket come down pretty close to some young kids at Ocktober fest that was a bit scary.
Is LDRS a similiar situation? I was trying to get the Boy Scouts to turn it in to a campout since it was so close this year, but won’t if you advise otherwise.
I still plan to have the Boy Scouts come to MHM. They are helping me rebuild my Lvl 1 Cert rocket with a BSA theme in hopes to get more boys interested. The whole troop did get their Merit Badge this year and have decided to make regular model level launches part of their regular yearly planning.
Anyway guys, sorry about my lack of information and quick judgement.
Kevin 😯
Anonymous
Kevin, LDRS is a big venue that is a HUGE launch, but a better choice than BALLS for the kids, at least in my estimation.
I say this for a number of reasons. First of all, nearly everything at BALLS is way pushing the envelope. Folks get extreme there because they can. The “R” hybrid I was referring to above was real. It did detonate, and yes I was very scared for a bit, even though I was a long ways away. Not only big motors, but pushing the limit on everything else…
At LDRS you will have typically smaller, but still pretty substantial stuff… and civilization nearby just in case you need a doc or grub or whatever. LDRS is a much better choice, IMHO. It is also worth noting that while EX motors are typically quite safe, the loads flown during most of the LDRS launch are certified (no offense intended to my many capable EX friends!)
One suggestion – make Joe aware of how many kids may be in attendance at MHM. It helps to know if there will be a larger contingent of kids, what day, etc. I know he will appreciate it.
JW
Conway Stevens
Kevin, LDRS is a big venue that is a HUGE launch, but a better choice than BALLS for the kids, at least in my estimation.
I say this for a number of reasons. First of all, nearly everything at BALLS is way pushing the envelope. Folks get extreme there because they can. The “R” hybrid I was referring to above was real. It did detonate, and yes I was very scared for a bit, even though I was a long ways away. Not only big motors, but pushing the limit on everything else…
At LDRS you will have typically smaller, but still pretty substantial stuff… and civilization nearby just in case you need a doc or grub or whatever. LDRS is a much better choice, IMHO. It is also worth noting that while EX motors are typically quite safe, the loads flown during most of the LDRS launch are certified (no offense intended to my many capable EX friends!)
One suggestion – make Joe aware of how many kids may be in attendance at MHM. It helps to know if there will be a larger contingent of kids, what day, etc. I know he will appreciate it.
JW
Jw is correct LDRS is a HUGE launch and would be a WAY better choice for kids then BALLS.
Things are less extreme then BALLS, But if I were looking to take some scouts to a launch that have never been before I would do MHM or OF as a good break in experience. We have lots of flights that involve them and also have some larger projects and motors as well. To me a much friendlier family environment for younger kids then either LDRS or BALLS. Not saying that LDRS is bad or not a place to take them just a much more different experience right off the bat.
The biggest things on LDRS is that they do have some much larger projects and they are becoming more common. Last years event had several 20 to 35 ft tall several 100lb rocket projects that flew in the N to P range class of impulse and they do have Research days as well. Last years LDRS would be one that I probably wouldn’t have chosen to take a scout group to due to where it was. Jean Nv. It was dirty, Hot and unfriendly with wind and sand storms. Did I mention Hot.. July in NV is 110 to 125 degrees. This year will be a bit better. Its later in the year and its in Argonia Ks. They event staff there is also top notch and put on a great LDRS.
And no worries JW no offense taken.. 😉
Kevin Osler
OK, Thanks for the advice. If they do end up going to LDRS it was going to be family camp where we have 1 or more adult per boy. I will put the fear of God in to them if we do end up going.
For MHM we are probably going to end up with 6-7 boys max in the 13-18 age range. We have a very small troop at the moment, but they are very exicited about rocketry. I’ve already ran a few troop launches where we practice the same launch type rules as NCR so the format will not be too foriegn to them. I might try to drag a few of them (and their parents) to a launch with me between now and MHM. I already got at least 2 of the new Dad’s coming in this year jazzed about Rocketry and the NCR club.
Kevin
Tim Thomas
8) Kevin, I talked to a friend over in Kansas who has been with Kloudbuster longer than dirt. He says to bring all the scouts you wish. They are more than welcome, they will have a great time. They can camp onsight (very rough) but he advised to try the Argona River Park. 8miles to the site, has hookups and showers. Large shade trees, lots of room for tents, river to swim and fish in. I can get more info if you or others want, just PM me. Hope this helps. 8)
James Russell
Last years LDRS would be one that I probably wouldn’t have chosen to take a scout group to due to where it was. Jean Nv. It was dirty, Hot and unfriendly with wind and sand storms. Did I mention Hot.. July in NV is 110 to 125 degrees. This year will be a bit better. Its later in the year and its in Argonia Ks. They event staff there is also top notch and put on a great LDRS.
Argonia can be as hot and as dirty, just a different dirt and a different heat. I have been to Argonia several times and you definitely do not want to skip any showers. It also is a place you will also need lots of water and shade. I would think if you asked a few rocketeers you will hear a lot of then say that Argonia was one of if not the hottest place ever to have an LDRS. Last year was the hottest wind filled with dirt, not sure how it compares but we will try to determine this year. the flying field is nice but walking through plowed fields is a tough chore, wear sturdy shoes and bring lots of water.
SCOTT EVANS
Conway Stevens
Jeffrey Joe Hinton
Kevin Osler
Anonymous
Tim Thomas
James Russell
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