carbon fiber

[Ed Dawson]

Scott,

I have used the foodsaver system many times. As Warren points out, the biggest problem is trying to avoid the wrinkles in a body tube. Anyway, it still makes for some great components and its a great way to get started with vacuum bagging.

Check out http://www.sollercomposites.com and http://www.aerosleeves.com for your materials. They both carry some really good products – particularly the carbon fiber sleeves. I have had incredibly good service from Soller, but note that Aerosleeves is having a sale through mid December (and they do cater to the rocket community). Just a quick comment that you need to buy on sale from Aerosleeves as they are usually a bit higher than Soller on the average day.

[SCOTT EVANS]

Making your own tubes, now I didnt think about that.
Dont worry Bruce, Ive got enough on the table to keep me busy for a little while.
Just always thinking way ahead. A few days ago I thought a tube was a tube. Making a carbon tube doesnt sound a whole lot harder to me than glass wraping a phenolic tube. If you have the right stuff.

Scotte

[Ed Dawson]

Yes, wrapping in carbon is basically the same as with fiberglass. But note that the dust from cutting and sanding carbon fiber is must more troublesome than with fiber glass.

Don’t breathe either of them, but carbon is worse than glass. Also, carbon is conductive so the little black pieces of dust will ruin electronics and electric tools.

[Troy HummelParticipant]

Here is some of the places I shop.

RAKA, INC. http://www.raka.com/

US Composites http://www.shopmaninc.com/carbonpage.html

Carbcom, Inc. http://carb.com/

Troy

[Ken PlattnerParticipant]

I’d start with a CF sleeve over phenolic. It’s the easiest way to get a nice strong tube. By the way Aerosleeves is having a 50% off sale until mid December. Now might be the time to get some 6″ sleeve for my next project!

Ken.

[Conway StevensParticipant]

Also if you dont want to bag your airframe I have another great method that leaves a fantastic finish. Works without vacuum but as good if not better results and cheaper. In fact so good that Giant leap took the idea and is now making their Dynawind tubes with my method. I personally will say one thing about buying product beings it was mentioned. Sometimes people shop for price. I try to always find myself shop with those that support our hobby. Like Aerosleeve does. It was a product originally designed by them for our use. For fiber glass stuff like epoxy I buy from Mr Fiberglass. He is one of us as well. I use the mr fiberglass line of epoxy.

Anyhow good luck !! give a shout if we can help.

Conway

[SCOTT EVANS]

Sooo—
Explain this othe methoud.

scotte

[Bruce R. Schaefer]

Here comes the mylar… right, Ken (Xman)? 8) Scott, look at Xman’s rocket in the photo section, Carbon Diem. He used Conway’s method. Very slick!

[Conway StevensParticipant]

So lets say if you get yourself some Carbon sleeve from one of the 2 places that offer it. Or even if you want just regular carbon cloth it can be used as well ( this methoud also is what I use to do Kevlar or Fiberglass laminates on air frames.) I also recomend to get it a fair amount longer then what you think you may need. 2 to 3 feet isnt a bad idea. Even if you dont use it now, you would be suprised what it canb be sued for later. So after measuring out and cutting off the right amount (also tape the ends with masking tape where the cuts are. It will reduce the fraying. Pull/psuh it to get the fabric to align nice and pretty. Also not lose. Then get a piece of clear Mylar sheet. I have some or it can be purchased at fort collins plastics.. They like us rocketry folk btw… Cut the mylar so it covers the whole airframe when wrapped around it with a little overlap. I like to use a slower curing epoxy like the west or the areopoxy or even the Mr fiberglass epoxy (btw is formulated by the same folks that do West systems but its less money) then I mix the expoy to its given ratio to cover what I need. With the sleeve in place I brush the epoxy onto the carbon covered airframe and pushit into the fibers and thru to the airframe. Im not to rough with it as you dont want to hurt the fabric though. After I have the fabric well soaked with a good amount of epoxy (I like to use more then not enough. not enough will create dry spots) Then I wrap the mylar around the wetted out airframe. (note do not slide it on the airframe direct placement and wrapping is required. Then I tape it in place nice and tightwith it overlapped. Then using one of several items ( I have used many now and it also helps if you have one other person that can help you hold the airframe) Duct tape, Shrink wrap, wide elastic strap like 3 or more inches wide,ect. (it needs to have some strech and give to it though) start at one end and using a sprial wrap go around the body tube using a good amount of pressure and overlap each wrap with the previous. Go from one end to the other. Then set on a piece of cardboard on end and let dry. I also have done a cardboard box type oven in the sun or with a light to control the temp. After a day unwrap the compression wrap. Then take off the mylar. (BTW Mylar will not stick to the epoxy, if you want to use a spray on release you can but normally not nessacary.) There you have it. If you have done it all right you should end up with beautiful laminated tubes with a VERY small and thin seam that can be sanded down. If you want the shiny carbon look just use finer paper and then buff it out with a polish.. If you want to paint it sand the whole airframe and paint. For heavy fiberglass I also like to put a couple of 2oz cloth on top to eliminate pitting and lots of filling work. Ive used this methoud for MANY years now.. Works great and makes airframes strong, light weight and have a nice easy to finish surface.

So here is a question. The other day some discussons from some members occurred and we are thinking of hosting some classes. One I would host if interest is there is a propellant mixing See the page on the forums on meeting agenda for the upcomming meeting and comment please. So now I would ask if anyone would be interested in this laminating methoud as a course? We have several others that people can offer and I belive those will be brought up in the meeting agenda thread as topics to disscuss at the upcomming meeting. So I would love to hear from anyone interested in any classes we could offer or any things they want to learn. I would host the Propellant and the compression laminate class if the interest is there.

Thanks

Conway

[SCOTT EVANS]

I would be interested in either class.

Scotte

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