- This topic has 77 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 5 months ago by
slipstick.
slipstick.-
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Art Hoag
I would like to point out that until the manufacturer can analyze the unit and both the flier and the manufacturer can determine what the problem was, then no assumptions or judgments should be made. The units are so vigorously tested that it is unlikely that a “defective” unit made it to a consumer. Again, please, do not make assumptions until all the facts are known.
I was there and had an ear to the electronics durind both the malfunctions and the test in between. What I heard and witnessed was something that I am not familiar with but since I have never used the until itself and I am not familiar with it, I cannot comment on what really happened. Let the manufacturer and the people who were there deal with this one.
Mike did have to endure what many of us fear and he kept a good attitude throughout the whole thing, for that I commend him. As Bruce said, that is one of the worst fears of a rocketeer that flies electronics. It happens to the best of us though. More complex rockets are subject to more types of issues and failures, sometimes, that is how it goes.
Mike, you still have time, get the unit figured out and we will see you back in March! When you do get your L3, the satisfaction will be that much better.
Art
PS – The motor was a K560W.
Conway Stevens
Folks,
At this moment it doesn’t matter as to what brand it was or what Altimeter. First and foremost we all know that the majority of altimeter issues and failures are user based specifically with the most proven brands that have been in use for some time. That being said, it does not mean that I am saying Mike is at fault at this moment either, nor am I saying that manufactures are perfect either as things do happen. But until Mike gets with the manufacture of the altimeter sends the unit in and has it verified as to what the issue is no one is in any position to condemn anything from anyone. Only the manufacture can do so. Sorry but one thing that irritates me highly is people quick to jump and point as well as many that jump on board with feelings of “Oh that happened and I have one….”You all know what I am saying in regards to the knee jerk reactions that happen.. Just wait till the facts come out. I’m sure if the issue is a defective unit it will be told so by the said manufacture.
Mike. My highest recommendations would be first do NOT change any setting on the altimeter in question and I would also NOT disassemble anything from the Ebay. Leave everything in the ebay in place and ask the manufacture if they prefer you to send the whole ebay to the manufacture for verification and testing. There may be other issues there that might help trouble shoot with it as is. If you change any settings on the altimeter it could mean the difference of finding out what happened. So first things first contact the manufacture find out what they need to do.
Conway
Bruce R. Schaefer
I agree on what Conway said about saying which altimeter it was. I personally have seen this model fly VERY successfully, on all levels. This is between Mike and the manufacturer. They must determine WHY it failed, until then it really isn’t our business. Just hang in there, guys. And speaking of rocketry, MAN, THAT WAS ONE OF THE BEST SUPER BOWLS I’VE SEEN… and I’m old enough to have seen them all. Now back to our rocketry channel… 😉
Art Hoag
Mike. My highest recommendations would be first do NOT change any setting on the altimeter that has failed and I would also NOT disassemble anything from the Ebay. Leave everything in the ebay in place and ask the manufacture if they prefer you to send the whole ebay to the manufacture for verification and testing. There may be other issues there that might help trouble shoot with it as is. If you change any settings on the altimeter it could mean the difference of finding out what happened. So first things first contact the manufacture find out what they need to do.
Conway
Agreed! Leave everything as is, don’t change anything else as of now even if you have played with it already. Pretend you had an aviation accident and the manufacturer is the FAA and NTSB! 😉
Art
SCOTT EVANS
On the first attempt, Art and Mike had their heads to the avbay, John rested the rail on his shouder. I was taking the pictures; had I been any good at it, I would’ve gotten the charges going off. THEN BAM-BAM! What happened to Mike has always been one of my fears. Mike, you’re one of the most persistant rocket guys I know! It’s definitely an altimeter problem, which you’ll work out with the manufacturer privately. I have a vested interest in that, as I had planned to use one on a rocket similar to yours. Great pictures; now we all know what concrete does to PR G10, in close up. You’re lucky the nosecone shot off with no damage. Concrete and FG nosecones don’t work well with each other either. As we all agreed yesterday, you’ll have no trouble pushing your chutes out! Yesterday wasn’t what we’d hoped, but a good lesson for all of us.
Mike
Hind site is 20-20 If only you knew the alt. was bad(hard to tell out there), I had the same one (tested too) sitting in the back of the van you could of barrowed! Might of made the differance.
Oh Well, a shame. Thats why I wanted that vacume chamber. Not everything coming off the assembly line is perfect. Good luck next time.Scotte
Conway Stevens
On the first attempt, Art and Mike had their heads to the avbay, John rested the rail on his shouder. I was taking the pictures; had I been any good at it, I would’ve gotten the charges going off. THEN BAM-BAM! What happened to Mike has always been one of my fears. Mike, you’re one of the most persistant rocket guys I know! It’s definitely an altimeter problem, which you’ll work out with the manufacturer privately. I have a vested interest in that, as I had planned to use one on a rocket similar to yours. Great pictures; now we all know what concrete does to PR G10, in close up. You’re lucky the nosecone shot off with no damage. Concrete and FG nosecones don’t work well with each other either. As we all agreed yesterday, you’ll have no trouble pushing your chutes out! Yesterday wasn’t what we’d hoped, but a good lesson for all of us.
Mike
Hind site is 20-20 If only you knew the alt. was bad(hard to tell out there), I had the same one (tested too) sitting in the back of the van you could of barrowed! Might of made the differance.
Oh Well, a shame. Thats why I wanted that vacume chamber. Not everything coming off the assembly line is perfect. Good luck next time.Scotte
Scott,
Actually most of the long time manufactures put their product through vigorous pretesting. Yes I know which manufacture this one was and I can say that each individual unit is vacuum calibrated and tested before it is approved. Yes things are still possible but pretty rare.. Again most ALL failures Ive had and seen were out of a user related issue. Trust me ive made my mistakes doing them as well.. One thing of most importance is that no one was hurt during any of this. Thats a lucky thing. We all should be fortunate and think about the safety aspects first.
I think at this moment the discussion of the unit in question or the manufacture is not relevant and needs to be put on hold till more info from the manufacture is given on what happened.
Mike Sorry to see things didnt work out as planned. Again get with the manufacture and give it a go again….
slipstick
The avbay is still intact, although cleaned up and the primary charges removed, and until I can make contact with the manufacturer I don’t want to speculate. I want to help trace down the root cause of this problem with them, and as a product development engineer, I do not want to make across the board comments about another engineer’s product. For some reason, I have this uncanny knack in finding problems that others have not not experienced, so this is not new to me. We’ll all learn from this once we have more facts. I’m certain I did everything by the book, so I am sure the designer will want to be involved. If I screwed up in some way, then that’s another lesson learned.
However, when I got home, in a post flight fit of curiosity and fact finding, I did attach some 12V LEDs lights (manufacturer approved) to the external charge terminal blocks and stuck the avbay on my patio in the wind to see if I could set them off. Since the igniting signal is so short (about one second) I couldn’t see an event in the late day light. I have exactly the same setup in another rocket, that I did not have time to launch on Saturday, so I may be doing some tests on it (without the big charges, just the e-matches).
I have the avbay out on the deck tonight getting frozen, with e-matches connected (no BP) and I’m going to turn it on around midnight. The temperature (30 deg F) will then be the same as it was on Saturday, midday. In the warm garage it beeped a normal ready mode for 15 minutes without firing off. I’m looking to consistantly repeat the failure so I will know what NOT to do in the future.
SCOTT EVANS
On the first attempt, Art and Mike had their heads to the avbay, John rested the rail on his shouder. I was taking the pictures; had I been any good at it, I would’ve gotten the charges going off. THEN BAM-BAM! What happened to Mike has always been one of my fears. Mike, you’re one of the most persistant rocket guys I know! It’s definitely an altimeter problem, which you’ll work out with the manufacturer privately. I have a vested interest in that, as I had planned to use one on a rocket similar to yours. Great pictures; now we all know what concrete does to PR G10, in close up. You’re lucky the nosecone shot off with no damage. Concrete and FG nosecones don’t work well with each other either. As we all agreed yesterday, you’ll have no trouble pushing your chutes out! Yesterday wasn’t what we’d hoped, but a good lesson for all of us.
Mike
Hind site is 20-20 If only you knew the alt. was bad(hard to tell out there), I had the same one (tested too) sitting in the back of the van you could of barrowed! Might of made the differance.
Oh Well, a shame. Thats why I wanted that vacume chamber. Not everything coming off the assembly line is perfect. Good luck next time.Scotte
Scott,
Actually most of the long time manufactures put their product through vigorous pretesting. Yes I know which manufacture this one was and I can say that each individual unit is vacuum calibrated and tested before it is approved. Yes things are still possible but pretty rare.. Again most ALL failures Ive had and seen were out of a user related issue. Trust me ive made my mistakes doing them as well.. One thing of most importance is that no one was hurt during any of this. Thats a lucky thing. We all should be fortunate and think about the safety aspects first.
I think at this moment the discussion of the unit in question or the manufacture is not relevant and needs to be put on hold till more info from the manufacture is given on what happened.
Mike Sorry to see things didnt work out as planned. Again get with the manufacture and give it a go again….
Yes it could of been something Mike did. But I dont think manufacturers are perfect either. As a bussiness man myself, I know every Roof we ever put on, isnt perfect. Yes, I have had to fix some leaks.
Mike was saying testing it at home wasnt producing the same result .
I may be streching but, it was fairly windy. If the pressure bleed hole in the av. bay, was facing the wrong way, it only takes 1/4″ change in pressure to arm the thing. ??? Will be interesting to know the answer.Warren B. Musselman
That’s an interesting thought Scott. My very first dual deploy bird had only a single altitude bleed hole into the avbay and it fired its charge on the pad when a gust of wind hit. Since then I’ve generally gone to 2 or 3 holes equally spaced around the avbay and have never had that kind of problem again. However, it was a specific altimeter that was known to have this problem – not a Missileworks.
Warren
Conway Stevens
Cant say ive ever had that issue with wind setting off any of my atlimeters. But I also use the better method of using 3 to 4 equal and properly calculated static ports as they filter out noise from wind and other varibles and they also provide for more accurate readings and better deployment. Just an all around better way to do it.
Art Hoag
Conway Stevens
Bruce R. Schaefer
SCOTT EVANS
slipstick
Warren B. Musselman- The forum ‘Archives 2006-2010’ is closed to new topics and replies.