MAYHEM!

[edwardModerator]

I’ve talked with various members and at the last few big launches I’ve seen very few rockets actually checked over before being loaded onto the pad.

I think it would be nice to have an LCO, two RSO’s and one, if not two pad managers.

I think every high power rocket should be weighed on a scale before they go to the pad. Do a CP/CG check along with thrust to weight check, expected altitude check and a few questions about recovery – are you using electronics…if so are you familiar, etc. If you are using motor ejection what time did you choose. Also a rundown of basic construction. It would be nice to have the Aerotech nomograms to give approximate altitude/time estimates.

This would only take a minute or two and could be done in line while we are waiting to clear the pads.

I think we’d be doing ourselves a big favor by being vigilant to the rockets that might be underpowered and need a longer rail. It would also help people to realize what motors could light slower, take off slower and help avoid severe weather cocking. What is that saying – an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?

Edward

[Chris LaPanse]

As for RSO, it would be nice if this year we had the RSO set up with the flight cards in a tent slightly distanced from the pad lines (as is often done at large events), as in the past, it has been easy to bypass the RSO without realizing it.

If we separate the RSO from the flight line, he may be easier to pass by. The best run NCR event was Okfest ’08, IMHO. I took my rocket out, the RSO checked over it, signed off… the pad manager assigned the pad, and the LCO pushed the button. That was the most efficient I’ve seen us. What happens more often than not is that the RSO assigns the pad, which he shouldn’t, nor should the LCO. It should be up to the pad managers. ❓ Plus, we have jackets to wear that indicate the position we’re performing at the time. We need to wear them.

Not if the flight cards are at the RSO table. That would also help distance the RSO from the pad manager.

Ideally, in my mind, the sequence would go like this:

You go up to the RSO tent, rocket in hand. The RSO looks over the rocket and asks any questions as you fill out the flight card. If everything looks good, the RSO signs off on the flight card. You take the rocket, flight card now in hand, to the lines for the pads, where the pad manager takes your flight card and tells you where to put your rocket. The pad manager puts the cards on the appropriate place on the board (or gives them to the LCO and tells the LCO which pad to place them on), and then they are launched.

That’s how it’s been done at every LDRS and similar launch I’ve been to – RSO tent somewhere near the LCO, but separated far enough that it is a noticeably distinct location (often in a tent near registration). With the flight cards at the RSO table, it’s not easy to bypass, and it’s instantly obvious to the LCO/pad manager if a rocket has not been checked by an RSO, as the rocketeer will not have a flight card if this is the case. A decent sized sign at the RSO tent would also help make it difficult to bypass unknowingly.

[AdrianParticipant]

As for RSO, it would be nice if this year we had the RSO set up with the flight cards in a tent slightly distanced from the pad lines (as is often done at large events), as in the past, it has been easy to bypass the RSO without realizing it.

If we separate the RSO from the flight line, he may be easier to pass by. The best run NCR event was Okfest ’08, IMHO. I took my rocket out, the RSO checked over it, signed off… the pad manager assigned the pad, and the LCO pushed the button. That was the most efficient I’ve seen us. What happens more often than not is that the RSO assigns the pad, which he shouldn’t, nor should the LCO. It should be up to the pad managers. ❓ Plus, we have jackets to wear that indicate the position we’re performing at the time. We need to wear them.

Not if the flight cards are at the RSO table.

That’s how it’s been done at every LDRS and similar launch I’ve been to – RSO tent somewhere near the LCO, but separated far enough that it is a noticeably distinct location (often in a tent near registration). With the flight cards at the RSO table, it’s not easy to bypass, and it’s instantly obvious to the LCO/pad manager if a rocket has not been checked by an RSO, as the rocketeer will not have a flight card if this is the case. A decent sized sign at the RSO tent would also help make it difficult to bypass unknowingly.

This could be a good idea. The NCR flight cards have been self-service, which speeds up the throughput, which is good and bad. Maybe the flyers should continue to fill out their own flight cards out of the way like we’ve been doing it, but then we should be more strict about not letting any flight cards get clipped onto the the LCO’s boards until it’s been initialed by the RSO. As an RSO at big NCR launches I’ll admit I’ve let rockets go through with just a glance at the rocket, a glance at the flight card, and a glance at the flyer unless there was something unusual about it or it seemed to be pushing the envelope in some way. I’ve also been left sometimes doing RSO and LSO at the same time, which is o.k. at a small launch but not when we’re sending 200 on an afternoon. Separating the RSO from the LCO table and pad selection hubbub would help keep the RSO’s focus in the right place and encourage a closer examination.

[Tim Thomas]

8) I would be more than happy to bring an extra table and popup. We could put the flight cards and pens there. This should open up the area around the LCO table and flightline.

[Ed Dawson]

Good suggestion Tim. That would be great to have a separate pop-up and table to keep crowds from forming at the LCO table.

I agree that 2008 was the best in terms of organization and support. It worked well – BUT, we had a lot more people signed up to help. The 2009 MHM and Oktoberfest were pretty rough because we did not have a lot of help. The more volunteers, the better it goes. I’ll post a revised schedule shortly.

Thanks all!

[Ken PlattnerParticipant]

Guys, these are great ideas, but the problem is staffing those positions. Assuming 2hr shifts, five people are required for one of those positions. Looking at 3 positions (LCO, RSO, Pad MGR) 15 people are needed PER day!

Unless members really step up to the plate to volunteer and commit to a time slot, the club will never have a truly organized, well run launch.

It’s up to all of the members to contribute if they can.

Ken.

[Bruce R. Schaefer]

Ken, what you said is very true and why we’ve had to duplicate positions in the past. Although it sounds harsh, no one should be allowed to fly without volunteering. While I haven’t been the best member the last few years, this may be the only way we can put on a well-staffed launch.

You go up to the RSO tent, rocket in hand. The RSO looks over the rocket and asks any questions as you fill out the flight card. If everything looks good, the RSO signs off on the flight card. You take the rocket, flight card now in hand, to the lines for the pads, where the pad manager takes your flight card and tells you where to put your rocket. The pad manager puts the cards on the appropriate place on the board (or gives them to the LCO and tells the LCO which pad to place them on), and then they are launched.

I certainly don’t disagree, but the LCO and RANGE Saftey Officer MUST be in eye contact and not heads down in a tent. He has control of the whole range and must be allowed to view it and be in control. ❓

[Chris LaPanse]

I disagree. The RSO’s primary job is to inspect the rockets prior to flight, and ensure the rocket and motor combination selected is likely to have a safe flight. The LCO is more in control of the range once a rocket has been deemed safe.

[Bruce R. Schaefer]

Wrong, dude. I waited more than a half an hour after I served my RSO duties, waiting for you to get back from retrieving a rocket. LDRS is not us. We are both.

[Chris LaPanse]

What do you mean by “we are both”? Do you mean that we are both LCO and RSO? If so, that shouldn’t be the case at the larger launches (Mayhem, Oktoberfest). I know that it sometimes is the case at our launches, but it shouldn’t be – it would be more efficient to split up the duties with the RSO inspecting and the LCO controlling the range.

(Oh, and I don’t recall keeping you waiting, but I do apologize for that whenever it happened).

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