Motor storage

[Geof Givens]

Does the club have a communal storage box that enables people without LEUPs to order motors online, and ship them to the box/LEUP Czar, and then use them at launches?

Geof

[Warren B. MusselmanModerator]

In a word, No. There are a number of options though. You can arrange with Tim Thomas of Giant Leap to order your motors and store them until you need them at a launch (Aerotech, Cesaroni) . Jim Amos will do the same for AMW motors. Finally, Conway Stevens and James Russell are setting up to be a Loki dealer and will also have a magazine quite close to the launch site. Suggest you contact them to see what can be arranged.

My suggestion is don’t even think about applying for a LEUP and storage of your own until we hear the outcome of the court case. There are a few holes you can use to avoid it for now if you stick with 38mm and smaller motors. So called Easy-Access motors are still available over the counter at Hobbytown and there is no requirement for a magazine so long as you do NOT have a LEUP.

Warren

[Conway StevensParticipant]

There are other members in the club that also have personal LEUP storage and I am wiling to bet would help if you need. Once I get my LEUP finished (allready have the storage) with ATFE then its a viable place to do so.

Warren only issues with buying anything from vendors with the “so called Easy Access” (BTW for those that dont know this is a Aerotech term and not a legal one from the ATFE or any other agency) loads that will just out right sell it to you with no permit and no storage is that its a violation of current federal law that can cause the seller and buyer big issues. Now that there is a rule in place (be it how ever bogus we think it is) of any reload or motor that is intended use assembled will be more then a total of 62.5 grams of propellant is restricted to LEUP purchase only. If the ATF were to go to a launch (for peoples info in the last couple of years ATF has shown up at events for the Pyro community checking for permits) and they checked rocket motors/propellant weights and permits that match you either will have to have a permit or a good receipt from said vendor that was Pre-ruling of the 62.5 gram law. All motors “of the Easy Access varity” would be grandfathered in and not require a permit. As far as law also states. Weather you have a permit or not proper storage is required as well or could/would be treated as another violation. Sorry to sound a bummer. Just what I have had a few agents tell me as well as what I have read myself.

Anyhow, The hopes is that there will be a ruling soon on the issue and we will win. BUT there is still permits that will have to be had to buy and use BP and Ematches for our purposes. Another issue on the front is the ongoing front of the CPSC that is pushing towards yet another Vendor or Pyro/research material. Firefox pyro recently lost their battle with the CPSC requiring buyers to have ATF permits to purchace chemicals. The next target that the CPSC is now going after is Skylighter pyro. So we may win the ATF case with APCP but we still have other battles comming it looks to me.

Once I have mine all procured I will make an annoucment. It is still hopeful to be planned to be vending at MHM 08 as a Loki dealer.

[Mike Bennett]

Just had my BATFE inspection last week of my magazine and my fire inspection today (already pre-approved). I should have the permit by mid December at the latest.

[James Russell]

I am always willing to store for club members as well. That was the original reason for me getting the LEUP, so that I could help other club members with storage. I am limited to 50# I usually have very little or nothing but still check with me before making the arrangements.

I am getting inspected this week as well, I am in the process of renewal but should be done around the first of the year.

[Mike Bennett]

I had the fire marshal inspection last Friday and now I have approval from both the BATFE and the local fire marshal. I to am limited to 50 lbs. but once I get the LEUP I will apply for a variance to store up to 500 lbs. I have already discussed this with BATFE agent and the fire marshal. I was told I should have my LEUP by mid December at the latest.

[Conway StevensParticipant]

Good Luck James and Congrats Mike!! Ive applied for a 1500lb storage. I haveb the room to do more if needed as it is an outdoor magazine. Maybe if ever the need calls. But wow. how many here can imagine what 1500lbs of AP is like.. a 6″ 3 grain O motor holds right at about 30-35lbs. LOTS of APCP ..

[Mike Bennett]

Got home today and I had two documents from the BATFE. Woohoo a LEUP and notice of clearance. Now I am going to work on the state permit.

[Conway StevensParticipant]

Yowzers that was fast Mike. Congrats. Good luck on the Local. They are more troublesome and problematic then the Feds. They don’t differentiate between low and high explosives. Basically requiring ALL to get a blasting permit. BTW from what I understand it entails taking a blasting/explosives test that cost $600.00 then applying for and getting permits for all the different stuff. Like a Dealers permit if you want to sell that cost $25, OR one for transportation for $25 or one for use for 25 dollars or one for manufacturing for $25 or storage $25 on top of all the other stuff and on and so fourth. What we as Colorado residents need to do is find a way to petition this get someone in our government that Understands. Like a congress or senate or representative of some sort to back a bill/law for Colorado to change this to be more in line with the Federal stuff. I know it sounds silly but I believe and some others do as well that it can be done. It would take work to do so but might be worth it.

[Mike Bennett]

Actually I just spoke with Scott from the state. For hobby rocket motors yes you do fall under a business since they do not recognize individuals. Also for possession, storage and transport of rocket motors you do need the type 1 (possession), 2 (transport) and 3 (storage) permits at $75.00 each for a total of $225. Next you need a finger print card and you have to take a test. Scott said that it was 33 questions and would cover mostly low explosive questions. You have to get a 90% or better to pass. At that point he takes your picture and inpects your magazine. Then hopefully in a short time if the background check checks out then you get your state permits.
I am getting the applications for all three permits and he is sending me the documents from which the test questions come from to study. There is not other cost like the $600 you stated for taking the test. I know when Ken took his test he bought a book for $300 to study but I think they are being leaniant on test questions for rocket motor storage. I will find out when I get the materials from Scott.

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