- This topic has 43 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 18 years, 2 months ago by
James Russell.
James Russell.-
Posts
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Mike Bennett
Warren, I could be wrong (I hope not) but I believe the state permits only apply to manufacture, storage and transportation of propellant. A LEUP with contingency storage does not require state permits.
Ken.
Sorry but not true. Here is the 555.62 from the orange book:
§ 555.62 State or other law.
A license or permit issued under this
part confers no right or privilege to
conduct business or operations, including
storage, contrary to State or other
law. The holder of a license or permit
issued under this part is not, by reason
of the rights and privileges granted by
that license or permit, immune from
punishment for conducting an explosive
materials business or operations in
violation of the provisions of any State
or other law. Similarly, compliance
with the provisions of any State or
other law affords no immunity under
Federal law or regulations.[/b]Conway Stevens
Intresting Mike. As far as I understood was that a Fed cannot enforce a State and the same goes for state vs the Fed.
Anyhow. Whatever it takes for me to be in compliance I will do. I wonder why they need to do another backround check as the ATFE does one already.. Again just interesting stuff. So if they are 3 year permits are the less to renew or the same cost?
Mike Bennett
Well I don’t think the feds can enforce the state or other way around. But I believe both applications ask if you are following state and federal law. So example the fed application asks in question 12 right on the first page, “Is a state or local permit required for explosives business or operations?” You answer no but Colorado requires a permit, the BATFE can’t make you get a state permit or enforce that you do. However they can pull your federal permit for not conforming to the federal law that states if your state requires a permit but you don’t get one, the BATFE looks at it like you are not following what the law reads.
Sorry guys I not trying to get people to get their state permits and spend more money. All I am saying is if you think that you are covered by just a federal permit, you are wrong at least in the state of Colorado. And if something happened to where you have to go to court or something, question 12 on the application is going to come up. Like I said, Jeff from the BATFE told me they know about Colorado state law requires a permit. In other words I would be in violation of my federal permit if I did not get the required state permit. That is how they would enforce it.
As far as the state renewal fee, I am not sure, I did not ask the question. I will call back today and ask.
Tim Thomas
8) And a man came upon the land, and seeing as box, opened it… And all who lived there were dismayed, for they all knew not to open boxes that the contents they did not know…. 8)
James Russell
well I just had my inspection for renewal and all went well. I also was asked about state permits. It is something that he is asking because he knows the laws and also seems to be very up on rocket motors and how we fall in with all of the maze of legal paperwork. He was very helpful and understanding. He has a job and knows what it is regardless of his opinion and it did seem like he was on the fence with the legal battle we are in. At lest he sees both sides and understands what we are going through. He does want us to fallow the rules but is not trying to cause any more road blocks and hurtles for us.
If you are engaged in any activity with explosives you need to have a state permit based on his understanding of the laws. if you are only using then then you need a type 1 but if you are transporting and using them then you need a type 2 but it sounds like that most of use fall under the type 3. It looks like I will be going down that same road as Mike, maybe we can do a group thing and they give use a break (I don’t think so) but at lest it will look like we are trying to comply at all levels.
I just do not want to give my insurance company any reason not to pay any claim if something would to happen.
James Russell
this may or may not have been posted already but this explains what the type I, II and III permits
1. Who is required to obtain an explosive permit?
Except as specifically allowed by these regulations, it is unlawful for any person to use, possess, control, manufacture, purchase, sell, store, transport, or dispose of any explosive material without possessing a valid permit from the Division of Oil and Public Safety.
Type I Permit: A permit required by and issued by the Division of Oil and Public Safety to individuals who possess and control or have access to explosives materials during the use, transportation, storage, distribution, manufacturing, sale, acquisition, or purchase of explosives materials.
Type II Permit: A permit required by and issued by the Division of Oil and Public Safety to corporations, companies, partnerships, firms, individuals operating a business, associations, or state or local government agencies involved in the use, purchase, sale, manufacture, transportation, or disposal of explosives.
Type III Permit: A permit required by and issued by the Division of Oil and Public Safety to corporations, companies, partnerships, firms, individuals operating a business, associations, or state or local government agencies for the storage of explosives in approved magazines.
another thing, they use the word rocket motor so it could be argued it includes hybrid’s and water rocket motors.
Conway Stevens
well I just had my inspection for renewal and all went well. I also was asked about state permits. It is something that he is asking because he knows the laws and also seems to be very up on rocket motors and how we fall in with all of the maze of legal paperwork. He was very helpful and understanding. He has a job and knows what it is regardless of his opinion and it did seem like he was on the fence with the legal battle we are in. At lest he sees both sides and understands what we are going through. He does want us to fallow the rules but is not trying to cause any more road blocks and hurtles for us.
If you are engaged in any activity with explosives you need to have a state permit based on his understanding of the laws. if you are only using then then you need a type 1 but if you are transporting and using them then you need a type 2 but it sounds like that most of use fall under the type 3. It looks like I will be going down that same road as Mike, maybe we can do a group thing and they give use a break (I don’t think so) but at lest it will look like we are trying to comply at all levels.
I just do not want to give my insurance company any reason not to pay any claim if something would to happen.
Well Count me in. I say we see what they can do to help us if any. So do I understand you need all 3 or just 1 of the 3 that best fits what you are doing? I will probably call the state and speak with scott to see what I can get started. Best to be proactive I guess.
James Russell
the way I have been told you need all 3 but trying to understand the wording I would think a II and III but again they really only want money…
Mike Bennett
The way Scott explained it was type 1 is possession type 2 is for transport and type 3 is for storage. So if you have contingency storage you may not need type 3
Warren B. Musselman
So the way I see it IF you want to legal with storage in the state of CO, you need a LEUP and a Colorado Type I, II, and III licenses in order to possess, use, transport and store APCP rocket motors.
Sorry guys, not a chance in the world I’d ever do this. Hell, it was easier, and less intrusive on my privacy to get my concealed carry permit. I still think the thing to do is to wait until the court case is decided because if BATFE isn’t allowed to regulate AP as an explosive, that should automatically remove it from the state’s purview as well.
I will continue to build and fly rockets until actual enforcement of this stuff starts and then it’ll be all over for me with HPR. I will never willingly allow any government agency the right to search my premises at will. Hell, I don’t want them to even know my name.
Warren
Mike Bennett
Conway Stevens
Tim Thomas
James Russell
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