Smash Rocketry New Group Project - The Proton M

This topic has 391 replies, 29 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 4 months ago by Kevin Osler.

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February 26, 2012 at 5:34 am #55314
smashburn
Another good day working on the Proton .. Bear at the Router table cutting bulkheads and Rich glassing the 12″ tubes with their final wrap of 4.5 oz. They came out great as usual. Thanks guys!!!

Special thanks to Rich for bringing snacks, drinks and sandwiches .. awesome!

I’ll be there again next week for anyone interested in helping out .. we got lots to do!
February 26, 2012 at 9:55 pm #55315
smashburn
We ran out of glass cloth this weekend and will need a bit more to finish. We have been using a base wrap of 7.5 oz and a top wrap of 4.5 oz. I think we’ll need about 3 yards (50″ wide) of each to finish. If anyone has any drop laying around close to those weights we could put it to a good use.

Thanks,

Steve
February 27, 2012 at 3:40 pm #55316
Warren B. Musselman
Moderator
Steve, I have shitloads of fiberglass 60″ wide… the heavier stuff I believe is 6.5oz E-glass and the lighter stuff is 3.5 oz S-glass. All standard weave. You’re welcome to come up and pick and choose and take what you need for the project.
February 27, 2012 at 4:03 pm #55317
smashburn
Steve, I have shitloads of fiberglass 60″ wide… the heavier stuff I believe is 6.5oz E-glass and the lighter stuff is 3.5 oz S-glass. All standard weave. You’re welcome to come up and pick and choose and take what you need for the project.

Thanks Warren .. that would be perfect. I wanted to drop my RRC’s off with Jim as well so that would be great since you’re neighbors. When’s a good time for you? today .. later in the week .. etc?

I’m off thru Wed .. probably all week (from the surgery).

Steve
February 27, 2012 at 5:07 pm #55318
Adrian
Participant
What’s the current plan for the airstarts and electronics? I have a Rocket Tiltometer from Frank Hermes on the way that I should be able to loan for this if needed. But if the outboards are just going to be lit at first motion, we could just use a Raven’s liftoff detection or similar, because the rocket will still be on the rail at that point.
February 27, 2012 at 6:04 pm #55319
smashburn
What’s the current plan for the airstarts and electronics? I have a Rocket Tiltometer from Frank Hermes on the way that I should be able to loan for this if needed. But if the outboards are just going to be lit at first motion, we could just use a Raven’s liftoff detection or similar, because the rocket will still be on the rail at that point.

No airstarts per se, just light at liftoff as you suggested. We made the mistake on the Delta of lighting an “M” and 6 “I”s at once .. the “I”s were almost done before liftoff on the “M”.

I’m looking at using ‘exploding bolts’ per Keven Troj to attach the booster to the sustainer. I would also like a detector of some sort to disable the sustainer from lighting if the separation does not occur. Some type of push button that opens, closing the circuit, at separation .. would that violate the new ban on ‘pull pins’ ???

I’ll also have the Tilt-O to address that aspect of the flight. Thanks for the offer, I really appreciate it. If that was not available I’d pretty much decided I’d have to get one. The risk on something this large is just too high.

My friends like Kevin T and Neil and the boys at MDRA advise against couplers per se on the large body rockets. Kevin opts for a bulkhead to bulkhead fit w/ the exploding bolts and has had great success on really big projects. They also bring it down in mult sections so I’ll have 3 .. the booster and then I’ll break the sustainer into 2 sections. I can probably blow the booster chute right away .. 3000′ or so … but will need dual deploy in the sustainer sections .. est 9000′.

I do have a number of RRC2’s and several timers .. though would not be opposed to getting new (mine are all from 2003-2007 era) electronics if the budget allows. In 2004 friends and club members donated over $700 to help pay for motors on the Delta II. I’ll need at least that much for this project just for motors and paint. I’m up to $150 already so believe it will work out again.

Thanks!
February 27, 2012 at 8:02 pm #55320
Adrian
Participant
O.k., so light all 6 outboards on the rail at first motion, then stage separation, then light the sustainer, right? What size for the outboards? Are you still plannnig for a K sustainer motor?

I’m pretty sure the ban on the pull-pins etc. was just meant to prevent the situation that happened at LDRS29, where an accidental stage separation when the rocket was horizontal at the pad triggered the second stage airstart timer to start counting down. If you have a Tiltometer and maybe an altitude check on the sustainer, I don’t think it would be a problem to have an additional shunt inhibit that would pull apart at stage separation.

This will give me something to do in my afternoon meetings today.
February 27, 2012 at 8:32 pm #55321
smashburn
O.k., so light all 6 outboards on the rail at first motion, then stage separation, then light the sustainer, right? What size for the outboards? Are you still plannnig for a K sustainer motor?

I’m pretty sure the ban on the pull-pins etc. was just meant to prevent the situation that happened at LDRS29, where an accidental stage separation when the rocket was horizontal at the pad triggered the second stage airstart timer to start counting down. If you have a Tiltometer and maybe an altitude check on the sustainer, I don’t think it would be a problem to have an additional shunt inhibit that would pull apart at stage separation.

This will give me something to do in my afternoon meetings today.

The plan now is 3- M1300 (75/6000) and 6-K550 (54/1750) staging to an L1000. Just estimating on the motors, James will give me better numbers once we get closer.
February 27, 2012 at 8:41 pm #55322
Adrian
Participant
To maximize the chances of all 6 outboards lighting, and minimize the consequences of one failure, I would use 2 Raven altimeters to give each outboard its own channel, battery, and arm switch. Then there would be 2 booster channels left for apogee and backup apogee, or apogee and stage separation. This way you can turn on the booster and confirm the deployment charges are armed and ready before arming each of the booster outboards. The outboards can be set to light as soon as the Ravens detect liftoff, which happens within a few feet. How many Gs would we expect on the pad?
February 27, 2012 at 10:07 pm #55323
BEAR
Thinking outloud here and thinking towards a worst case scenario, of the three main motors, only two ignite in the booster, and only three of the 6 outboards ignite, and they are all on basically one side so that a tilt is induced, the sustainer ignition is locked out by the tiltometer and now we have to get the whole thing down safely and preferably, undamaged. Do the explosive bolts then fire to separate stages? This would seem to have to happen so that the sustainer recovery sytem is not carrying the booster with it. You need the bolts to fire, separate stages, and then deploy the booster recovery sytem while the sustainer is doing it’s thing. Is this correct and is this part of the plan? 😯
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