Winds aloft test with DC20 - Northern Colorado Rocketry

This topic has 11 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 8 months ago by mule.

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April 29, 2008 at 9:47 pm #40238
slipstick
I was planning on bringing a couple balloons from the grocery store to get an approximation of wind speed aloft, by watching its movement. This would be for a go-no-go decision on my two stage “The Twins”.

I then had an idea about using the DC20 to determine winds aloft. Basically we would tie one to a large balloon(s) and let it go. The Dc20 will report back its ground speed. After a specific time period (or by radio control) a deployment charge would fire separating the DC20 from the balloon and allowing it to parachute back to terra firma for retrieval.

Anyone know anything about weather (metereology) balloon technology? I did some googling…

Evidently, the diameter balloon is the most important aspect of displacing the weight of air to develop bouyancy. The Dc20 is 5 ounces (add charge and timer).

A general balloon table for lift:

DIAMETER VOLUME LIFT

9″ 0.22 CU FT. 5 GMS.
11″ 0.40 CU FT. 1/3 OZ.
16″ 1 1/4 CU. FT. 11/4 OZ.
36″ 14 CU. FT. 14 OZ.
60″ 65 CU. FT. 4 LBS.

Here’s a much better table (Driskills Guide to Helium Balloons): http://www.wwdforum.com/uploads/images/20061106_133841_DriskillsGuideT.pdf

Inquiring minds wantto know 💡
April 29, 2008 at 10:52 pm #47749
Adrian
Participant
I’ll see if I have a Parrot I could loan for this experiment. The DC20 data can be recorded somehow, right? We could compare GPS altitude vs. barometric altitude. The Parrot will record for about 30 minutes.
April 29, 2008 at 10:58 pm #47750
Anonymous
Mike, I use this website http://www.weather.com/maps/activity/aviation/us34000footwindsaloft_large.html?clip=undefined&region=undefined&collection=localwxforecast&presname=undefined

note the drop-down menu where you can select alternate altitudes.

That is a terrific idea about sending up a “trial balloon” 🙂
April 29, 2008 at 11:54 pm #47751
Warren B. Musselman
Moderator
Believe it or not, I have a ultra high altitude balloon project I’ve been working on – meant to go to over 100K at least at some point of the project. I have a slew of websites to check into on this topic. Almost as fascinating as rocketry and far far easier to get a waiver for too.

This is a good starting place:
http://www.pegasushabproject.org.uk/wiki/doku.php

Balloons are available at:

http://www.novalynx.com/400-balloons.html

They’re cheaper than I expected. Biggest expense is helium which has gone up radically in price over the last couple years.

Warren
April 30, 2008 at 7:55 pm #47752
slipstick
Mike, I use this website http://www.weather.com/maps/activity/aviation/us34000footwindsaloft_large.html?clip=undefined&region=undefined&collection=localwxforecast&presname=undefined

note the drop-down menu where you can select alternate altitudes.

That is a terrific idea about sending up a “trial balloon” 🙂

Excellent. Very handy. I assume those are mean sea level altitudes so 18000 feet MSL will be about 12,000 feet AGL. A balloon will tell us real time, as the forecast data is extrapolated.
April 30, 2008 at 8:39 pm #47753
slipstick
Biggest expense is helium which has gone up radically in price over the last couple years.

FYI, Here’s a quote on Helium that I got from Wagner Welding Supply in Longmont. They supply Argon for my TIG welder.
(bottle lease is $7/mo or $10 for a single weekend)

Bottle Size – Volume – Fill Cost – ($/cuft)
Q 66 cuft $36.30 ($.55/cuft)
M 110 cuft $89.60 ($.81/cuft)
H 219 cuft $129.40 ($60/cuft)
L 356 cuft $147.23 ($.41/cuft)
April 30, 2008 at 9:46 pm #47754
Warren B. Musselman
Moderator
Yeah, I get my Argon and Argon/CO2 mix from the same place. Interesting thing, ALL helium production is tied to natural gas, but only a few natural gas fields produce significant quantities of helium. The US has been the world’s supplier for the last 100 years and the major field is in Texas and Oklahoma and is slated to run out in less than 5 years. While there are other countries producing it, I believe they only produce about 15% of the world’s supply. New fields are apparently coming online, but at nowhere near the production level the US has had in the past. Helium prices is more than quadruple what it was 10 years ago and is going to keep going up.

Warren
May 1, 2008 at 5:21 am #47755
SCOTT EVANS
Biggest expense is helium which has gone up radically in price over the last couple years.

FYI, Here’s a quote on Helium that I got from Wagner Welding Supply in Longmont. They supply Argon for my TIG welder.
(bottle lease is $7/mo or $10 for a single weekend)

Bottle Size – Volume – Fill Cost – ($/cuft)
Q 66 cuft $36.30 ($.55/cuft)
M 110 cuft $89.60 ($.81/cuft)
H 219 cuft $129.40 ($60/cuft)
L 356 cuft $147.23 ($.41/cuft)

just buy it

scott e
May 1, 2008 at 2:56 pm #47756
mule
Participant
My understanding on the helium supply was that most of it is currently in storage and only gets added to by production. I have never verified this, but that is what is taught/discussed in the Tech Diving world. I was getting into HE blends at one time….. On that note, if you guys need a digital fill whip, I have one set up for O2, HE and AR transfills. I’m certified to play w/ up to 100% O2 and do fills. I don’t know what kid of setup you would be using for the balloons, so just tossing that out…..
Greg
May 1, 2008 at 7:17 pm #47757
slipstick
if you guys need a digital fill whip, I have one set up for O2, HE and AR transfills. I’m certified to play w/ up to 100% O2 and do fills. I don’t know what kid of setup you would be using for the balloons, so just tossing that out…..
Greg

That sounds great. Thank you.
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