Level 3 – Need TAPs for my Certification Project

[Anonymous]

A 20K waiver is a lot. It took me FOUR times to recover cleanly over 20K (though I am 4-for-4 since 😉

NCR is blessed to have many capable TAPs. It would be my honor to help out if necessary– though it probably will not be an issue. We each have our specialties. All the TAPs are solid (except maybe that Iowa guy)………..

JW

[slipstick]

Thanks for the comments and the encouragement

If “Keeping M’s under 12K” is not a problem, then I won’t rush out and buy another box of “fat” rocket parts. I have the equivalent of a Performance Rocketry Intimidator 5 coming in (Lord willing and the creek don’t rise). I asked for some other airframe components that do not normally get shipped with it, along with a G10 54mm Avbay for another GPS package idea.

If any of the TAP’s would like to review and critique my design package so far, before the meeting, its at:
http://www.telerover.com/rockets/L3/Slipstick_HP3_L3_Certification_Design.pdf 💡

I’ll look at adding ballast (would sand be a good choice? lead shot? 10 Big Macs?) to the nose cone to see if I can get below 12K. I really don’t want to wait until April, and I don’t want to purposely add weight that I can’t remove easily later.

What is the penalty for ‘accidently exceeding the waiver. Will they take my pilot’s license away? 😥

The Cesaroni M1400 is the mildest M motor I could drag up on RockSim. Any suggestions on an alternative for L3?

[Art HoagParticipant]

The first launch at the North site usually happens in April, that is what you should probably plan for if you want to do your L3 right away. You definitely have a great deal of knowledge that you can apply to your L3 design. You also might consider taking advantage of the coupe launches between now and April to get some L2 experience before attempting your L3. Don’t feel like you have to rush it, play at your own pace and have fun. See you Saturday and good meeting you at the launch this last Saturday Mike.

I may be repeating this and I apologize if it was already said in this e-mail but I did not see anyone bring up the motor class limit at the Atlas site. NCR does not fly anything bigger then a K motor at the Atlas site. This is due to the close proximity to the highway and the sites geographical capabilities.

Save the M’s and the big rockets for the North site.

Art

[Doug GerrardParticipant]

I’ll look at adding ballast (would sand be a good choice? lead shot? 10 Big Macs?) to the nose cone to see if I can get below 12K.

How about adding a functional payload like a camera? 😉

Doug

[Bruce R. Schaefer]

Well. well, well… I just happen to have an Intimidator 5 sitting out in the garage… as well as a G3 and extra 4′ 3″ airframe. Great choice, Mike. I took a PR Competitor 5 kit, had new fins made, and added a 3′ section for the main and built it for my L3. Kits are always good to start a project. The rest is up to you to have fun with and learn. I had to add a little over a pound of fishing weights (Pb) in the nose of the Intimidator 5 to keep it stable for N shots. Its maiden flight will be with a Cesaroni M1400 in an AT 75/6400 case. Great start to your documentation, by the way.

[Bruce R. Schaefer]

Oh, fine, Doug, like he wants NASA quality movies of his L3 flight. 😉

[MikeSModerator]

I agree with the suggestions to slow down a bit and enjoy flying.

Thanks to Many, I have learned to slow down a bit. Joe H. has
probably been the most helpful in that department.

I only get to a few NCR launches a year. So when I show up, I am
in 5th gear to get things done.

I got My Level Two in 2007. I had not planned to in early 2007 but things
just worked out that way. I flew the rocket twice with no problem. I have
had no Level Two Rocket crash. I hope I do not.

For Myself…There is so much to learn and understand before I even think
of a Level Three. Not to mention the price.

Have a great day.

PS You Rockets Look Great

[Tim Thomas]

8) For you 98mm type guys, Cesaroni makes an M2505 White Thunder. I saw one fly, very Bada__! Uses the 98/7680 case. Flat nasty! 😆

[Conway StevensParticipant]

I would be willing to help as a TAP member. Please feel free to email or contact me here as well.

Just some thoughts and recommendation.

A level 3 cert is a serious project to undertake. Most cost a fair amount and are not a project that should be rushed through. I highly recommend that you have a fair amount of previous experience in the L1 and L2 ranges of motors as a M motor or above is a much more highly powerful device then most L2 flyers are used to. Its big jump to go from J350’s and 54mm K motors and the same things that worked for design in those will not be the same for M and larger. Getting experience in the 75mm motor sizes of L is a good idea before starting a larger project. Many of the smaller motors even in the K class can and will easily go past the waiver of the Atlas site. L motors can exceed 20K. M motors can exceed 30K and so on. My post is to make sure to think things through before rushing in.

You must ask 2 TAP members to work with you on your project. The whole project must be approved by the TAP before you may begin any construction. You will need to do some design and pre-work papers to document and show how it will be constructed, materials, expected performance and more. I highly recommend to visit the Tripoli web site and look over what is required to do a L3 cert. I have posted below various links from the Tripoli site for you.

http://www.tripoli.org/cert/howto_level3.shtml

http://www.tripoli.org/cert/level3_QandA.shtml

http://www.tripoli.org/cert/data_capture.shtml

Please feel free to give me a shout. Would be glad to chat with you.

My email is constevens@cowisp.net

Conway

PS I will be at the meeting in Ault this weekend as well.

[slipstick]

I was under the impression that the 12,000 foot waiver was based on the distance to the road, 1/2 the vertical distance.

Is not that independant of the TRA safety code distance for separation of the launch to the RSO and spectators (about 650 feet for an M motor), which would mean we would need to set the launch pad further away from the parking area?

If it is absolutely not possible to launch from the Atlas site in Feb then I’ll either HAVE to wait or find another place, adding sufficient weight to stay under whatever waiver is at that venue. I figured last night that filling the nose cone with 5 lbs of water (for example) would keep me below 11,500.

My TRA number is 11583 and I joined three months ago. TRA member #11584 is now listed as an L3, so he is moving along quickly as well.

I know everyone means well, but to ask me to “slow down” is like asking me to stop breathing. I need the jazz of tight program goals to keep on living. I’ve been a product development engineer for over 30 years and it has never taken me more than 4 months (on new technology) to design and build a pre-production unit. I’m talking big stuff here. I redesigned and hand built an optical disk drive that I designed previously for commercial use to launch in the space shuttle to be installed in the MIR space station. It had counter-rotating actuators to keep from adding moments to the space station.

I only had 4 weeks to build the 220 pound Robotica Series II champion (Discovery Channel) and had 6 weeks to get two new bots to Robot Wars in London. The list of short cycle accomplishments is endless so I won’t bore you. Since Sun bought STK I have no outlet for my creative juices so building rockets is going to be my main passion for the next year or two. I currently have 25 patents issued and 11 pending, but my current position does not offer me any opportunity for creating intellectual property, so NAR, Triploli, CRASH and NCR are my project teams.

FYI, the geeky looking short kid in the long sleeved plaid shirt is me (at 14) in 1961 at the NAR Peak City Section site in Colorado Springs. This was on the north side of what is now Garden of the Gods road and is cuurently occupied by the Hewlett-Packard complex. The picture is out of the 1963 Estes Catalog. I was able to go to NARAM-2 and 3, since they were both in Colorado, and I ended up nationally #4 in NAR contest points.

[Non-rocketry Pictures removed by the Moderator as Off Topic and also taking up too much space in the forums.]

[Author]

Posts